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	<title>Comments on: Loss Leaders versus Exploratory Search</title>
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	<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/</link>
	<description>Information Retrieval Research, Issues, and Discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Weekly Search &#38; Social News: 12/22/09 &#124; Search Engine Journal</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6349</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Search &#38; Social News: 12/22/09 &#124; Search Engine Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6349</guid>
		<description>[...] Loss Leaders versus Exploratory Search – IR GUPF [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Loss Leaders versus Exploratory Search – IR GUPF [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dinesh vadhia</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6209</link>
		<dc:creator>dinesh vadhia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6209</guid>
		<description>I see what Nate is saying but I&#039;d agree with Mayer about the amount of &quot;jazz&quot;.  The aim is to get the user to perform new searches or modify the current search as each action will refresh the ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what Nate is saying but I&#8217;d agree with Mayer about the amount of &#8220;jazz&#8221;.  The aim is to get the user to perform new searches or modify the current search as each action will refresh the ads.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6200</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6200</guid>
		<description>Though to be fair to Google, I have heard Marissa Mayer complain lately about the amount of &quot;jazz&quot; (unpredictable-ness) of information layout in the Google SERPs, and wanting to tame that jazz back down again.  Less jazz means easier scanning, and so perhaps what Nate is saying doesn&#039;t quite hold.

However, supposedly all these things that currently exist on the web page have already been A/B tested and proven successful.  So another of my ongoing questions about how search engines work is how a page can become so jazzy that users start to not like it, but that every single change to that page has been successfully tested, meaning that users do like it?  

That seems like an obvious contradiction to me, and I don&#039;t really understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though to be fair to Google, I have heard Marissa Mayer complain lately about the amount of &#8220;jazz&#8221; (unpredictable-ness) of information layout in the Google SERPs, and wanting to tame that jazz back down again.  Less jazz means easier scanning, and so perhaps what Nate is saying doesn&#8217;t quite hold.</p>
<p>However, supposedly all these things that currently exist on the web page have already been A/B tested and proven successful.  So another of my ongoing questions about how search engines work is how a page can become so jazzy that users start to not like it, but that every single change to that page has been successfully tested, meaning that users do like it?  </p>
<p>That seems like an obvious contradiction to me, and I don&#8217;t really understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6199</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6199</guid>
		<description>Another fellow (Nate Graves) over on Chris Dixon&#039;s blog had a comment about this as well.  I&#039;d like to link to it here: http://cdixon.org/2009/12/17/googles-feature-creep/#comment-26249483

Quote: &quot;One thought I’ve had is that maybe Google is introducing these new elements as a means of forcing users to do less scanning. Google makes money if people click on ads. The less the Google page changes, the easier it becomes for users to scan through information. The more users scan, the less they pay attention to ads. So, possibly Google is trying to break up the typical visual pattern as a means of driving users back to clicking on ads.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another fellow (Nate Graves) over on Chris Dixon&#8217;s blog had a comment about this as well.  I&#8217;d like to link to it here: <a href="http://cdixon.org/2009/12/17/googles-feature-creep/#comment-26249483" rel="nofollow">http://cdixon.org/2009/12/17/googles-feature-creep/#comment-26249483</a></p>
<p>Quote: &#8220;One thought I’ve had is that maybe Google is introducing these new elements as a means of forcing users to do less scanning. Google makes money if people click on ads. The less the Google page changes, the easier it becomes for users to scan through information. The more users scan, the less they pay attention to ads. So, possibly Google is trying to break up the typical visual pattern as a means of driving users back to clicking on ads.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dinesh vadhia</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6196</link>
		<dc:creator>dinesh vadhia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6196</guid>
		<description>Makes a lot of sense.  A corollary is that search results have to be better than competitors but not perfect because you want to encourage users to keep performing new searches as each new search displays a new set of ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes a lot of sense.  A corollary is that search results have to be better than competitors but not perfect because you want to encourage users to keep performing new searches as each new search displays a new set of ads.</p>
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		<title>By: François Schiettecatte</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6170</link>
		<dc:creator>François Schiettecatte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6170</guid>
		<description>Jeremy

Thanks for the clarification, I think I understand where you are coming from now. So yes I think there is a tension, if you think of it in purely economic terms, the more searches you run before clicking an ad the more you eat into the profit margin the search engine makes on that ad. That may sound very small when you think of the scale of the large search engines out there, but if everyone suddenly had to run twice as many searches to get to an answer there would be a significant impact. And I am not even thinking of exploration here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification, I think I understand where you are coming from now. So yes I think there is a tension, if you think of it in purely economic terms, the more searches you run before clicking an ad the more you eat into the profit margin the search engine makes on that ad. That may sound very small when you think of the scale of the large search engines out there, but if everyone suddenly had to run twice as many searches to get to an answer there would be a significant impact. And I am not even thinking of exploration here.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6141</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6141</guid>
		<description>I just updated the post, Francois, to help clarify some things.  I hope this helps the discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just updated the post, Francois, to help clarify some things.  I hope this helps the discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6140</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6140</guid>
		<description>Francois,

Perhaps I should have been more clear.  In Exploratory Search, your answer doesn&#039;t necessarily come in the form of a single page or ad.  One page or ad might actually be the best option, but even when you see that page or ad, you won&#039;t know it unless you&#039;ve had the chance to engage in comparison and contrasting, i.e. exploratory search.  

And so if all I am getting back from the search engine is a list of ads (and pages), if that is the only process that is supported by the search engine, then that process/result itself is already not a good answer, no matter what ad is actually contained on the page.  Why is it not a good answer?  Because my goal, again, isn&#039;t to find any one single page or ad.  It is to compare and contrast and summarize and understand the relationship between all the various pages and options.  

Stated another way, the best answer (or even the most satisfactory answer) doesn&#039;t become the best answer until the user has had a chance to explore.  So again, for information needs like purchasing a dvd player or buying a plane ticket, the goal of the search engine is to get the user off of the search page as quickly as possible.  This does seem to conflict with the user&#039;s goal of exploration, no question about that.  But where I am curious is whether the search engine business model has anything to do with either (1) setting up, or (2) perpetuating, that conflict.

What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Francois,</p>
<p>Perhaps I should have been more clear.  In Exploratory Search, your answer doesn&#8217;t necessarily come in the form of a single page or ad.  One page or ad might actually be the best option, but even when you see that page or ad, you won&#8217;t know it unless you&#8217;ve had the chance to engage in comparison and contrasting, i.e. exploratory search.  </p>
<p>And so if all I am getting back from the search engine is a list of ads (and pages), if that is the only process that is supported by the search engine, then that process/result itself is already not a good answer, no matter what ad is actually contained on the page.  Why is it not a good answer?  Because my goal, again, isn&#8217;t to find any one single page or ad.  It is to compare and contrast and summarize and understand the relationship between all the various pages and options.  </p>
<p>Stated another way, the best answer (or even the most satisfactory answer) doesn&#8217;t become the best answer until the user has had a chance to explore.  So again, for information needs like purchasing a dvd player or buying a plane ticket, the goal of the search engine is to get the user off of the search page as quickly as possible.  This does seem to conflict with the user&#8217;s goal of exploration, no question about that.  But where I am curious is whether the search engine business model has anything to do with either (1) setting up, or (2) perpetuating, that conflict.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: François Schiettecatte</title>
		<link>http://irgupf.com/2009/12/15/loss-leaders-versus-exploratory-search/comment-page-1/#comment-6138</link>
		<dc:creator>François Schiettecatte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irgupf.com/?p=1078#comment-6138</guid>
		<description>Depends on your point of view. From the user&#039;s point of view a satisfactory answer can be provided by either a result or an ad. From the search engine&#039;s point of view the best result is if the user clicks on the ad whether the ad is presented in the search results or on the landing page. From the point of view of the person running the ad, they just want to make a sale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on your point of view. From the user&#8217;s point of view a satisfactory answer can be provided by either a result or an ad. From the search engine&#8217;s point of view the best result is if the user clicks on the ad whether the ad is presented in the search results or on the landing page. From the point of view of the person running the ad, they just want to make a sale.</p>
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